I would like to use Amy's first, and most impressive post, to start an in depth discussion on the book. Many have had closure and gone on with their lives, leaving Twilight as a memory. But if its still near enough in your thoughts to add to our discussion, please, please do. We will start with the 2nd "favorite" on the list. The wedding. Add your thoughts, both positive and negative about the long awaited event.
From Amy Ladora (a closet member for some time now)
This is my first post and I'm very nervous about it...oh well here it goes. After I finished Breaking Dawn I didn't have too many good feelings about it and so in my atempts to find the good in the book I created this mosaic representing the nine topics I liked about the book...minus the Jacob chapters. I sent it to Twilightmom and she invited me to post...so I guess I'll share this with the rest of the TA's.
Topics
1- Breaking Dawn
2- Wedding
3- Honeymoon
4- Pregnancy
5- Transformation
6- Eternal Life/Hunting
7- The baby
8- Bella's protective sheild
9- Family
Thanks for letting me post
20 comments:
Oh, I love it Amy, that is really awesome! You shouldn't be nervous to post, that's pretty impressive for being your first one here. All very beautiful pictures, and all things that I liked (parts of them at least) as well. That shot of the 3 hands is so sweet. I have my own version of them as a family in my mind, I didn't get enough of Edward being a cute Dad to Remi (btw, I like that nickname for her).
So anyway, thank you for sharing really!!
Isn't it beautiful? I am so impressed. Every image is perfect. It really captures the beauty that was in Breaking Dawn.
And I actually liked parts of everything you metioned as well.
So I thought we could use your inaugural post here to begin a more in depth discussion. If it gets to long we'll start fresh. Lets discuss each part of your favorites. One at a time.
Starting with the wedding.
What did everyone love? What could you have wished a little more for?
I loved the emotions SM brought to the wedding. Bella's thoughts. Her description of Edward. There kisses and conversation after the ceremony, all perfect.
I would have loved a more detailed description of the decorations. Alice worked so hard, it seemed unfair not to see it (maybe an extra someday?). It definitely had the feel of the crazy day a wedding is. Everything does move to fast. But maybe a little more about her parents. A little more reflection. I wanted to linger on the wedding longer than I got too.
Some fans thought it was un-Bella to be so enthusiastic in the moment, but I don't think so. When she saw Edward and his face, well who wouldn't have cast off all doubt had they been in her place. She was still nervous, still Bella to me, in love with Edward enough to go through with it and see that he was a little bit right. It wasn't so bad being married to him.
I'll save my scathing reviews of other parts of the wedding for a little later in the discussion.
Oh good! I really like that we're going to discuss some things!
My saddest part about the wedding was that it wasn't long enough and I wish we could have heard them say vows to each other that they wrote themselves, can you imagine?? sigh.
I do love the emotions that I feel from both of them that day. I can feel both of their genuine happiness of finally being married. I wish we had more of a description of Edward's tux and how he looked, and I wish that I could picture Bella's dress, vail and hair! I can't! I do love that she felt beautiful that day, every bride should feel that way on her wedding day. And as I've said before, I love how happy Edward is and how he introduces her to everyone as "my Bella." Eeee!
Sweet moments with her parents, but I would have loved more. Especially when she could see that Charlie had swollen eyes. And honestly, was there even a single line from Phil? Not enough from any of the family really. I would have loved to hear more comments from Carlisle and Esme too. I totally agree that I want a better picture of how Alice decorated things, I need it. After seeing the beauty of all the flowers in Seattle, I can truly only imagine how perfect and stunning it must have been...
Well, I also have a few scathing reviews myself, but I don't want to ruin the lovely thoughts I'm having right now...(sigh again)
Thank you for your very kind words.
The wedding...well I agree with everything you've said so far. For me I was a little upset that there wasn't more involved with getting ready for the wedding. In the book it mentions that they had 10 hours, but in the next few paragraphs she's walking down the isle. ??? I wanted more interaction with her mother and Charlie and yeah I totally forgot about Phil...I mean this was supposed to be the last time she'd ever see them and I just didn't feel like there was anything there. I was also a little sad to not hear more about the decorations and things Alice had done. It also said that Esme and Renee were very involved planning the day, but that was the extent of it.
I was a little miffed that the wedding was so quick to detail but I talked to my step daughter about it and she said "you have to remember that this is Bellas perspective and she isn't too much into those kind of details. This was the way Bella saw the wedding." When I look at it that way it makes more sense that the few details she does mention would be the most important to Bella. The way Edward looked. The way he introduced her. The way he danced with her and she didn't mind.
I liked that Bella finally got the concept of marriage when she said,
something along the lines of "he's mine forever now."
That's all I can think of right now. I left my book at home...I'll have to re-read the wedding chapters tonight and see if there's anything I forgot. :)
I suppose we can just hope there will be extra's with all those details. But I agree, aren't parents, and parents to be, supposed to take turns going into the Brides room and giving her little speeches? I would have liked to hear from everyone.
We absolutely should have heard more about how Edward looked. Even in her nervousness Bella would have paid attention to Edward details. But your right Amy, Bella would have been pretty caught up to have taken in much else. But 10 hours in one page, C'mon.
I loved the other things you both mentioned. I loved her kiss, loved there dancing. Mmmm.
Are we ready to the punch to the gut?
yep, punch away.
I just finished re-reading the wedding and honeymoon - sigh.... It was better the second time reading it for me. I wasn't in such a hurry, blazing through it to see what would happen next. Maybe I'll just end the book right there. I'm feeling pretty happy right now!!
So Dazz maybe you aren't ready to discuss the gut punching parts?
I was like you though, handled everything better the second time through. But as much as I adore most of the wedding and the first part of the honeymoon, there are parts of both that make me want to throw the book in the dumpster.
So my goal isn't to convince you all that you should feel the same way. Please comment back but let's all agree to disagree right now.
Be warned. The next comment will be a little lengthy.
Okay, here goes.
1st - I really like SM. She wrote 3 marvelous books. I think she is a nice person, a good author, great story teller, and very, imperfect like the rest of us. She also has a creative side I can't relate to on any level.
2nd- if with my previous warning about agreeing to disagree it is so hard for me not to shout "WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE", that is how crap I thought some of BD was. But I will really, really try to stay under wraps with my emotions. So I apologize ahead of time if they get a little biting. I don't mean to. Just get carried away sometimes.
3- Loved the wedding. Hated Jacob. Not Jacob himself, but the pathetic use SM made of his character. Okay let me back up again. SM has said she writes the stories for herself. She doesn't try to please everyone. That is a little unfair in my opinion, but okay I can live with that.. But I am a very picky reader. I love to read quality stuff, as much as I can get my hands on. The thing I loved about the first 3 books is that even the parts I couldn't stande (Jacob kissing Bella for example) she at least convinced me of their authenticity.
I was left COMPLETELY unconvinced in Breaking Dawn. So that is how I feel her writing let me down. I know they are her characters and she has a right to take them down any path she wants. But she has to do it convincingly. And if a character is going to change, I need to be able to buy that.
I know many were convinced. But I was not. Does that make sense? That is my real pain with the book. I anticipated not liking things but having to live with her decisions. I can't, at least not peacefully.
Okay thats my intro.
If you choose to continue reading, see the next comment.
One more disclaimer. I'm also sorry it takes more time to explain what I didn't like. I tried to do justice to all the things I loved about the wedding. I could just type pages out here of lovely dialog so it looks more even. But I feel I have to be very thorough with my dislikes, so that I sound, well sound of mind.
So Jacob coming to the wedding made me want to pull my hair out to experience something less painful. Not because I didn't think he wouldn't or couldn't, it was the way he came. Their conversation. Horrible for me.
The little things that bothered me/made my skin crawl. That he calls her honey, at her wedding. Renee calls her honey too but that didn't bother me as much.
That she says he can have all the dances he wants. That he puts her hand up to his heart and his head in her hair. Hello, she JUST GOT MARRIED!!!!!!!!!!!!
But the part that sent me ballistic was that SM would have Bella slip and discuss her honeymoon plans with the guy who is madly in love with her. THAT is creative story telling? That is the only way she could come up with to thicken the plot? How ridiculous does that make Bella look? She suddenly forgot that she hasn't seen him since she broke his heart completely? Or were we not supposed to be so convinced (my word of force here) that Jacob was her soul mate in "this world". She turned him down as her soul mate, but she is comfortable discussing her change to a vampire and her desire for sex with Edward after not seeing Jake for 2 months. Their friendship is so deep that she automatically feels the exact same best friend connection to him that she had 8 months earlier. All she can see is her bestest friend standing in front of her. It was really supposed to be that natural?
It felt so repetetive of what we just finished reading in Eclipse. Didn't he already freak out about her relationship with Edward. Didn't he already howl at the news of her wedding. Can't these characters grow a little bit for better or for worse?
But more than repetetive, nothing ever felt more fictional for me in these books (unless you want to discuss imprinting? Oh save that for later). SM has been preaching how Edward is too good to be true. Find your Jacob girls. That was his appeal right? The sweetest, fiestiest teenage boy ever. And built at that. But I'm sorry I have broken a few boys hearts in my teenage years (not even close to my soul-mate) and I don't think they could have handled coming to my wedding 2 months later. Besides Jacob didn't get the invitation until they were sent out, usually about 3 weeks before right? So all this business about being a wolf for so long that it was awkward being human again, well also, unconvincing.
More palitable, and can I say realistic about a book of fiction? Okay believable is more like it. Believable for the characters I thought I knew.
One of these options, or any that anyone else could possibly come up with would have worked better for me.
And no I didn't have this list in my head when I went into it. Except the last one I thought could have possibly happened.
1. Jacob shows up before the wedding. He wants revenge now. Wants to hurt Bella for hurting him. He wavers when he sees her looking so beautiful but of course the converstion turns bitter quickly. He leaves. Bella is upset. But Bella is able to put it behind her once the wedding starts.
2. Jacob shows up as SM describes but is very awkward and distant making Bella a little sad and worried but she wont let that effect her wedding night. Poor Jacob. Bluck.
3. He shows up in his wolf form. He is still very upset but trying to keep his promise to be Bella's friend. But he hates Edward at this point. He doesn't trust being human with Bella. He can't bear to be hurt anymore and he just might want to try to kill Edward if he finds him alone. Bella is so relieved to see him. Pats his head or something, but when Edward comes up he can read Jacobs murderous thoughts. Bella is determined to find out later what Edward was reacting too, but is still to blissed out to worry right now, AT HER WEDDING FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!!
4. Or Jacob is so heart broken he doesn't show up at the wedding. Bella notices this when Billy gives her a hug. It upsets her of course, but then she chose Edward to be her companion for life, knowing it will take a long time, and Jacob finding his true love, if they will ever be able to be friends.
Later in Jacobs book we here his agony, hate, you name it as he spends months and months forgetting his human self! Until some event forces him back.
So there you have it. My issues with Jacob at the wedding. Again it is no ones job to help me see the light, but feel free to explain why it worked for you. All of my questions were rhetorical. The ones I was asking myself while reading and thinking about it later. I didn't pose them to be answered, unless you really want to.
I wonder why I hated writing essays so much in college. Perhaps I was never very passionate about the subject.
First, what I liked.
1. I liked how Bella was suddenly okay to be married because she now belonged to Edward - the emotion that filled her.
2. Edward calling her "My Bella."
3. Them dancing together
4. Edward turning Bella to the house to see her reflection.
What I didn't like.
I was okay with Jacob coming. He is a softy inside. I was not okay with how that situation resolved (in a repeat of Eclipse). He could have left when he was getting upset, with her realizing that he would be waiting painfully to return as a non-human. Or something.
I also found it false that he said it was hard to be human after so much time as a wolf. He may have felt awkward or hesitant, but it would have been more like returning home after being away at college for a few months, not like returning home from a mission where you were speaking an entirely different language. It may have read better if Seth had told Bella in their phone call in the first chapter that Jacob was calming down, or coming around. But the indication was that his feelings were still as intense as they were at the end of Eclipse, which does not fit well with the about face in his decision.
So, I wanted more good stuff, but would have been satisfied if there had been less of the Jacob stuff.
Oh, Amy, I meant to say welcome to the blog (long overdue, I know, but I've been AWOL all summer). How did you find us?
Thanks for the welcome betcha. My friend Connie told me about the blog. I guess one of her friends told her about it and she passed it along to me, because at the time she hadn't read any of the books. I'm happy to report that Connie has now read all four books.
I agree with you all on Jacob. I mean seriously. And Bella saying anything about the honeymoon... duh. And when Jacob starts shaking her and no one punches him or anything...WHAT? And for Bella to snap out of something like that so quickly didn't really seem like her, but then again she's had a lot of practice pissing Jacob off. And then to top it off at the end of the chapter when Edward and Bella get in the car to go off on their honeymoon, what do they have to hear in the background...him howling AGAIN. Other then the Jacob ordeal I thought the wedding/reception was lovely. I wish there had been more parental advice before the wedding and or more meaningful goodbyes before they left on the honeymoon, but all in all it was good.
MA - don't hold back on the gut-punching stuff for me. I'm still dealing with all those feelings myself about BD. But, I am now trying to enjoy the good parts, and pretend like the bad parts just never happened. (And yes, I do sort of deal with my own life that way too - I know - scary, huh!)
Amy - I absolutely LOVE the pictures you posted! Very creative and they definitely evoke the right feelings for me!
I have seriously considered taking a sharpie to the Jacob parts.
But really BFB do you think Jacob was such a softie that after only a few weeks (8 at most) he would be able to endure coming to the wedding?
I am torn. Part of me thinks yes that fits with Jacob but a bigger part of me, like I said before thinks, softie or not, if he loved her as much as he said he did, could he really be ready to do what was best for her in his heart broken condition?
Just wondering?
Oh, I've been missing so much - still don't have a second to comment on this fun project - maybe I"ll read the wedding stuff again and then comment...my sister is here from Italy - so my time has been gobbled up with family stuff, no complaints of course, but I sure want to come back soon...
Again, and for the record. I loved BD and as I read all these comments, I am amazed at them. But, I can always agree to disagree. About 98% of the people in my social circle loved the book and the 2% who didn't are surprised that I loved it. I'm guessing that the first three books were taking us all up the roller coaster and now, BD is the downhill and alot of people didn't get the closure I felt. Can't help you with that. I'm grateful that I loved it and also grateful that I'm ok with others NOT liking it! I loved the Jacob book and laughted at the chapter headings. I'll stop praising the book now and let ya'all have your "go" at the mourning you are going thru. Sorry to be so happy! I can't help it! :)
I guess I am thinking that Jacob would try to come to make her happy, but that he wouldn't be able to handle it very well because he wasn't really ready.
Which is pretty much what happened. I just think that they would have felt more awkward & that would have prevented much discussion from leading into the honeymoon area. Jacob would have been worried without all that stuff anyhow.
Maybe we are just reading this wrong, like Turkeymama said, expecting this to be a separate book, when it is really just the fourth of three sections of the story.
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